Gas heater problems....Andy B
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URL: http://www.forum.clubnissan.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=385
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Topic: Gas heater problems....Andy B
Posted By: markbuts3
Subject: Gas heater problems....Andy B
Date Posted: 02 December 2005 at 21:13
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So I decided to light the wall mounted gas heater in the spare room today, it hasn't been used for a while. I went out to fetch Jake from nursery and when I got back the house stunk. Once it had cooled and after removing the cover I found the heater was covered in black soot.... The burner is clean and it is burning blue towards the bottom of the flame but orange at the top. The flue appears to be clear...with the cover removed from in front of the burner the flame keeps changing position, one sec it goes straight up, then back under the baffle which I assume is the fresh air part of the flue, then it comes out of the front cover.... It's a RW Bantam Ecotherm. http://www.cosy-heating.co.uk/robinson_willey_bantam.html - http://www.cosy-heating.co.uk/robinson_willey_bantam.html Any tips Andy ?? Apart from get it serviced by a pro
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Replies:
Posted By: markbuts3
Date Posted: 03 December 2005 at 22:44
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Andy, any help m8 ??
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Posted By: Andy
Date Posted: 03 December 2005 at 23:21
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Personally Mark I would get rid mate.
If it has sooted up it means that it does not have enough oxy to burn (running rich).Where does the flu go,is the flu used for air supply and products of combustion?Or does it get its air from inside the room? For the moment mate do not use it as it sounds like it is filling your house with carbon monoxide which will kill within an hour mate. ------------- IF YOU WANT COMFORT BY A CAR IF YOU WANT SPEED BUY A HAYABUSA 194MPH,QUARTER MILE 9.86 sec @ 145.80 MPH 
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Posted By: Andy
Date Posted: 03 December 2005 at 23:23
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Right its under 7 KW so it does not need any extra ventilation.You need to make sure that the burnt products are not contaminating the fresh air coming in. ------------- IF YOU WANT COMFORT BY A CAR IF YOU WANT SPEED BUY A HAYABUSA 194MPH,QUARTER MILE 9.86 sec @ 145.80 MPH
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Posted By: markbuts3
Date Posted: 03 December 2005 at 23:32
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It's not being used at the moment. I deffo don't want any CO poisoning. It's a balanced flue, I think I'm gonna have to remove the main heater part and check the flue properly. It goes straight out the back of it through a 9" brick wall and is covered with a terminal guard as it's only about 4 foot from the ground and a couple of feet from a door... It looks clear from the outside... It's not old, about 2 years old....
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Posted By: Andy
Date Posted: 03 December 2005 at 23:36
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Mark,it could be burning to much gas.Do you know what the heat input is in KW's net? ------------- IF YOU WANT COMFORT BY A CAR IF YOU WANT SPEED BUY A HAYABUSA 194MPH,QUARTER MILE 9.86 sec @ 145.80 MPH
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Posted By: Andy
Date Posted: 03 December 2005 at 23:37
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What sort of gas meter do you have mate.Does it have a round dial with a red needle or is number digit meter? ------------- IF YOU WANT COMFORT BY A CAR IF YOU WANT SPEED BUY A HAYABUSA 194MPH,QUARTER MILE 9.86 sec @ 145.80 MPH
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Posted By: markbuts3
Date Posted: 03 December 2005 at 23:40
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It's 2.9KW gross heat input. The net figure isn't stated on it. Our meter is a digit one.
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Posted By: Andy
Date Posted: 03 December 2005 at 23:47
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Right mate.I need you to run the heater at max,Make sure all other gas appliances are switched off.Go out to your meter whilst the heater is running take a reading of the meter reading all digits and time it for 2 mins then take another reading and subtract one from the other and let me know what that figure is mate. ------------- IF YOU WANT COMFORT BY A CAR IF YOU WANT SPEED BUY A HAYABUSA 194MPH,QUARTER MILE 9.86 sec @ 145.80 MPH
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Posted By: markbuts3
Date Posted: 04 December 2005 at 00:07
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Took me a while to find the gas box key... 7085.7, 2 mins later 7085.8...
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Posted By: markbuts3
Date Posted: 04 December 2005 at 00:17
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Well I shouldn't be getting CO as it's room sealed. The flame is inside a large metal chamber so it's gotta be the flue not providing air....I just left it running a few minutes and the flame is ORANGE!!!!! I presume the soot is because it's overheated or something... If my batteries last I'll get you some pics.
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Posted By: Andy
Date Posted: 04 December 2005 at 00:18
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Mark is there any more numbers after the 8?
------------- IF YOU WANT COMFORT BY A CAR IF YOU WANT SPEED BUY A HAYABUSA 194MPH,QUARTER MILE 9.86 sec @ 145.80 MPH
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Posted By: markbuts3
Date Posted: 04 December 2005 at 00:21
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No Andy, that's all the digits...
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Posted By: Andy
Date Posted: 04 December 2005 at 00:21
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No its will soot mate due to lack of oxy.
Is the whole flame orange? ------------- IF YOU WANT COMFORT BY A CAR IF YOU WANT SPEED BUY A HAYABUSA 194MPH,QUARTER MILE 9.86 sec @ 145.80 MPH
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Posted By: Andy
Date Posted: 04 December 2005 at 00:22
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Is it a digital meter or anolgue mate?And have you got the point in the right place as there is usually to digits after the point? ------------- IF YOU WANT COMFORT BY A CAR IF YOU WANT SPEED BUY A HAYABUSA 194MPH,QUARTER MILE 9.86 sec @ 145.80 MPH
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Posted By: Andy
Date Posted: 04 December 2005 at 00:23
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Could you get a close up of your meter mate?Wanna do a calculation to make sure its not over gasing. ------------- IF YOU WANT COMFORT BY A CAR IF YOU WANT SPEED BUY A HAYABUSA 194MPH,QUARTER MILE 9.86 sec @ 145.80 MPH
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Posted By: markbuts3
Date Posted: 04 December 2005 at 00:34
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It's analogue, with just the last digit red.... Heres a couple of pics. What I meant about the black on the outside is that the flame is sealed so the soot shouldn't get onto the outside....
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Posted By: Andy
Date Posted: 04 December 2005 at 00:40
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That makes things better,what black stuff might be is burnt dust mate.What sort of smell was it?What was the red digit mate? ------------- IF YOU WANT COMFORT BY A CAR IF YOU WANT SPEED BUY A HAYABUSA 194MPH,QUARTER MILE 9.86 sec @ 145.80 MPH
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Posted By: Andy
Date Posted: 04 December 2005 at 00:43
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Can you see the base of the flame mate? ------------- IF YOU WANT COMFORT BY A CAR IF YOU WANT SPEED BUY A HAYABUSA 194MPH,QUARTER MILE 9.86 sec @ 145.80 MPH
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Posted By: markbuts3
Date Posted: 04 December 2005 at 00:43
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I think it must have been ready for turning over on the red digit because we've had the gas fire on for a while and the heater for a few mins extra too and it's still showing...
Come to think of it, the gas fire is burning a bit orange aswell. The upstairs wall heater seems fine though...
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Posted By: Andy
Date Posted: 04 December 2005 at 00:47
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Right that little dial on thr right mate is what I need you to watch,each segment is a unit of gas.Start the heater again with nothing else running and time one full rev of that red dial it does not matter where you timr it from. ------------- IF YOU WANT COMFORT BY A CAR IF YOU WANT SPEED BUY A HAYABUSA 194MPH,QUARTER MILE 9.86 sec @ 145.80 MPH
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Posted By: markbuts3
Date Posted: 04 December 2005 at 00:48
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I could when I removed the plate from the front and it was nice and blue, but it will be getting oxy from the room then. I'll see if I can when I first light it.... Yep, when I first light it it's blue and just the tip of the flame is orange. Then after a while as you see it gets very orange....leads me to believe the flue may be starving it of oxy. ????
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Andy wrote:Posted By: markbuts3
Date Posted: 04 December 2005 at 00:50
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Hehe, even when taking that pic, cropping it and posting it I didn't notice the dial Will do...
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Posted By: Andy
Date Posted: 04 December 2005 at 00:51
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If you then do the following equation 3600x1040 divide that by the time it has taken to go around then divide it by 3412 then times by 0.9 which will give you a net KW fig. ------------- IF YOU WANT COMFORT BY A CAR IF YOU WANT SPEED BUY A HAYABUSA 194MPH,QUARTER MILE 9.86 sec @ 145.80 MPH
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Posted By: Andy
Date Posted: 04 December 2005 at 00:54
You could be right mate,the base should be blue at all times and the tip orange.If the flame is orange and floppy then we have a lack of oxy mate. ------------- IF YOU WANT COMFORT BY A CAR IF YOU WANT SPEED BUY A HAYABUSA 194MPH,QUARTER MILE 9.86 sec @ 145.80 MPH
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Posted By: markbuts3
Date Posted: 04 December 2005 at 01:01
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5 mins 15 secs so 315 secs. I make that 3.135 from your calculation... Oh and it's bloody cold standing outside in a t-shirt for that long...
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Posted By: Andy
Date Posted: 04 December 2005 at 01:13
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Right mate you are aloud a 5% margin over the fig,so yours is just over mate.Best thing to do is get it serviced by a corgi engineer.It is basically just over gasing slightly,however you do have a very old meter there mate and that would be needed to be taken into consideration.Also the gas governor could be ltting to much gas through.Does is say on the heater what the the gas input pressure is?Should be lower that 20mbar.
That calculation you have done mate is called a gas rate,you can then convert that into cubic meters and feet but I wont go into that LOL. ------------- IF YOU WANT COMFORT BY A CAR IF YOU WANT SPEED BUY A HAYABUSA 194MPH,QUARTER MILE 9.86 sec @ 145.80 MPH
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Posted By: markbuts3
Date Posted: 04 December 2005 at 01:28
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I might have a word with the guy a couple of doors down. He is a gas fitter, we don't speak much but he seems cool...he capped off my kitchen supply a few years ago when I did the kitchen. Hot setting pressure is 19.0mbar then it says 1.0mbar at the side of it, I assume that's the allowed variance.
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Posted By: Andy
Date Posted: 04 December 2005 at 01:36
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Yep that sounds fine mate and would be a good idea to get that guy to look at it. ------------- IF YOU WANT COMFORT BY A CAR IF YOU WANT SPEED BUY A HAYABUSA 194MPH,QUARTER MILE 9.86 sec @ 145.80 MPH
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Posted By: markbuts3
Date Posted: 04 December 2005 at 01:39
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Cheers Andy. I suppose I should have paid for British Gas service cover then I'd get an annual service for all gas appliances...
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Posted By: Andy
Date Posted: 28 December 2005 at 21:14
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Mark,did you get this sorted mate? ------------- IF YOU WANT COMFORT BY A CAR IF YOU WANT SPEED BUY A HAYABUSA 194MPH,QUARTER MILE 9.86 sec @ 145.80 MPH
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Posted By: markbuts3
Date Posted: 28 December 2005 at 21:21
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Not yet Andy. I'm gonna collar my neighbour after the new year about it. I did clean the burner in the gas fire and that's burning better now. I'll have to get a new GFCH system fitted soon. I have my sister's old boiler, pump, valves, controller, tank stat, room stat and water cylinder from when she swapped to a combi boiler. I just need a couple more new rads and then it all piping up.
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Posted By: Andy
Date Posted: 28 December 2005 at 21:32
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You wont be able to fit that boiler Mark,any new install has to be a condensing boiler,unless its not feasible to do so. ------------- IF YOU WANT COMFORT BY A CAR IF YOU WANT SPEED BUY A HAYABUSA 194MPH,QUARTER MILE 9.86 sec @ 145.80 MPH
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Posted By: markbuts3
Date Posted: 28 December 2005 at 21:34
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Since when Andy ?? They still sell boilers that aren't condensing don't they ????
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Posted By: Andy
Date Posted: 28 December 2005 at 21:50
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Since April this year mate.Yes you can still buy a conventional bolier,but not many places will sell them now. ------------- IF YOU WANT COMFORT BY A CAR IF YOU WANT SPEED BUY A HAYABUSA 194MPH,QUARTER MILE 9.86 sec @ 145.80 MPH
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Posted By: Andy
Date Posted: 28 December 2005 at 21:52
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Building Regulation Part L Condensing Boilers
All new and replacement boilers in homes should now be of the condensing type, if it is appropriate for your property. A simple procedure will determine whether a condensing boiler can be fitted. This involves assessing the installation along with: The property type The fuel Whether the boiler needs to be moved The need for an extended flue The need for a condensing pump or soak-away All gas boilers must be installed by a CORGI registered installer who will advise you whether a condensing boiler is appropriate for your property and provide you with a declaration form for you to keep. (An OFTEC installer will advise you for oil fired boilers). You should keep this form. This came into force on 1 April 2005 for gas boilers and comes into force on 1 April 2007 for oil fired boilers. Condensing boilers are more efficient than the conventional type and are available in standard and combination models. Better efficiency means that your heating bills will be reduced. ------------- IF YOU WANT COMFORT BY A CAR IF YOU WANT SPEED BUY A HAYABUSA 194MPH,QUARTER MILE 9.86 sec @ 145.80 MPH
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Posted By: markbuts3
Date Posted: 28 December 2005 at 22:17
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But cost a lot more in the first instance
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Posted By: P10Gilo
Date Posted: 28 December 2005 at 23:38
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i still sell a lot of std efficiancy boilers to plumbers doing fiddles.. have you got a city plumbing supplies near you...tell them that you want a boiler on their price beater account and tell them martin giles from branch 4161 quoted you for this..if you find a boiler that suits you ill ring your local branch and sort it for you..halstead edens are quite cheap and sedbuk A rated and british |
Posted By: markbuts3
Date Posted: 28 December 2005 at 23:44
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When I can afford it, I'll take you up on that Martin
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.Posted By: P10Gilo
Date Posted: 28 December 2005 at 23:53
sure ..its just another option for you..ill help out if you need anything 
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Posted By: markbuts3
Date Posted: 29 December 2005 at 00:08
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Just checked. There's a CPS 14 miles from me; it's only 5 miles from Karen's parents' though..
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